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and lights camera action

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[Music]

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hello

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[Music]

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hello

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[Music]

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and good morning from Philadelphia Frank

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here and James come in from Westchester

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New York and this is UFO News Network

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Sunday we're here today with a dr. Irina

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Scott author of UFOs today 70 years of

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lies misinformation and government

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cover-up and thanks for joining us this

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morning dr. Scott well thank you for

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inviting me I'm very happy to be here

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okay

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well for folks not familiar with dr.

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Scott's background she's worked as a

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MUFON investigator has worked at the

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Battelle Memorial Institute has worked

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for the Defense Intelligence Agency at

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wright-patterson Air Force Base and on

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top of all that she knows her stuff

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about UFOs we'll be getting into a lot

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of details about that first off people

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who are following the UFO subject today

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heard a lot of talk about the recent

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Pentagon UFO study especially regarding

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the work that different Robert Bigelow

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controlled organizations like needs the

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National Institute for discovery science

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or bass the his aerospace wing has done

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as part of that pentagon UFO study but

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going all the way back to the 40s

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there's usually nothing new in the world

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of UFOs the Battelle Memorial Institute

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was doing to a large extent the same

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type of work studies research and all

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manner of looking into the UFO

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phenomenon for the government

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dr. Scott worked there directly got a

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lot of internal scuttlebutt about the

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nature of a some of the more advanced

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work a possibly including study of UFO

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crash fragments so if you could dr.

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Scott tell us a little bit about there

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the Battelle Memorial Institute and tell

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us a little bit about your work there

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well the Battelle Memorial Institute is

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a very important organization and it's

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the world's largest nonprofit

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independent research and

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organization it's been important for

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example in developing Xerox II which has

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changed the world it's been involved in

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the fabrication of uranium fuel rods for

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the first full nuclear scale reactor

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it's also managed some important atomic

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energy sites such as the Lawrence

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Livermore Oh cribs and Brookhaven

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laboratories and it was important in

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developing the bomb during the Manhattan

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Project has done a lot of other things

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too and at the time in the early 50s

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when they were doing some UFO studies

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they had probably the top metallurgist

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in the world so it has a good background

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okay and how gentle mundane our dross

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was I believe one of those metallurgist

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suffice I believe that was a specialty

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but whether it was or wasn't he was

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involved in some of the UFO research

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that Battelle took pardon in the late

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40s and into the 50s can you tell us a

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little bit about him yes he was I as far

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as I can tell I'm not sure I think he

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was a head of project stork at one time

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and that was it started out as a study

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of what the Russians made or foreign

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technology this was before UFOs came in

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they didn't the military didn't want

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people and know what they were

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investigating on other countries it's

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probably that type of thing its foreign

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technology is probably the most secret

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of anything now

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and when UFOs came in I I can sort of

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trace the history of UFOs because I kind

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of know more about Mattel than any place

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else

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when UFOs came in their study went into

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it's very classified foreign technology

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division of project stork or white stork

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because they didn't know whether UFOs

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were foreign from another country or

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what they were and so that's one reason

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the whole thing started out as

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classified was because it went into the

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classified area is highly classified

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area of the government to study foreign

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technology and it's still foreign

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technology so I made mothers from really

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highly classified what's going now

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understood okay now i Battelle also took

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put together as something for the Air

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Force called

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a special report fourteen I believe it

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is yes yeah if you can tell us a little

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bit about that okay I think it's

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probably the best study in my scientific

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opinion of any that's ever been done on

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UFOs and it was done in the early 50s

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and at that time it was secret and

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Mattel didn't want anybody know they

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were working on UFOs and the division it

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was under was also secret so it was a

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secret study it's been Declassified now

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and they did a very scientific study and

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they investigated the two most prominent

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theories about UFOs and had good data to

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show that something was actually going

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on the first theory to refute UFOs is

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that they're called by their

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caused by lack of information or by

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inaccurate perceptions and they always

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give examples of this where somebody

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goes out and says Oh a UFO and then they

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see it better than oh it's an airplane

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and that's the general idea of your

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folks is there actually something that's

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known that people just can't identify

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first and so they did a real good study

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and they took around 3,000 of the best

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sightings of over 7,000 from Project

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Blue Book and they found out that the

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ones that were in the category called

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excellent that had very good reporting

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on the details and very credible

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reporters everything came out a much

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higher percentage of the unknowns than

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the very core reports where somebody

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just goes out and sees a light and they

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did a statistical study and that refuted

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that because they had a lot of good data

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on some of the unknowns that never

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turned into unknown that nobody ever

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dark side in the second theory is that

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UFOs are really known but in but

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misidentified objects and in that case

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they did a real good study of if that

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were true you would expect the

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characteristics of UFOs to match Jen in

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general those of conventional objects

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for example a certain percentage of

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conventional objects are aircraft and

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they have predicted both lighting

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arrangements and a certain percent on

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meteors and so forth and so if you line

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up the information on UFOs verse prosaic

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normal aircraft you expect that to come

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out the same because if they were just

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missing the implications however

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but L did a really good study using

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statistical procedures such as

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chi-squared and in this case they found

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that with a probability of less 1/5 or

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1% that these two classifications were

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different and so that's the standard

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they use in scientific studies if you

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have two classes of things and wonder

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whether the same were different you use

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the probability and if it's less than 5%

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that's reportable and they came up with

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that probability in five of six

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categories and so this was a good

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scientific study and it also showed that

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UFOs are not miss identification or

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instances where people don't have enough

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information and which proves in the same

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can be format that you're opposing to

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this God nobody knows about

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okay sorry keep going nobody knows about

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it because the air force thing said they

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didn't find anything and that was untrue

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as they wrote up in their summary that

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nothing was found well highly

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significant results were found but I

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think for one thing nobody knew anything

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about statistics and so they didn't

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understand the results and most people

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still on your stands antistick so you

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don't really like a really good study

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that was no I'm sorry

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uh as this study has since been

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Declassified is this available for us to

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look at an hour

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is it still buried somewhere no it's

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it's been the classified for a long time

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it was a special project 14 okay

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you mentioned yeah we'll have to look

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for that and add the the link to the

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description section of the the interview

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when we get it posted now I you also

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worked for the Defense Intelligence

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Agency did that work a pre day you work

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at Battelle or did that come after I

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also had some other information about

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this was the Roswell Roswell took place

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in 1947 and nobody knew anything about

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it until 1980 when the first books were

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published but we had a report from

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somebody that worked at the tail I guess

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I got secondhand from the person he

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talked to

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but his name was John Singer ly John

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spinner and Mattel had done that so they

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I just talked about SR 14 special report

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14 and it was just to do a question

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there and to do this typical study it

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wasn't supposed to be anything else but

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what they did was hire really good top

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metallurgist to do this study and that

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sounds pretty funny to start with a

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little bit fishy and so people at

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Battelle knew most of the people who

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were in that study and they were

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generally metallurgist and people

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closely questioning them did they find

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any material that related to UFOs and

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they wouldn't talk nobody would but I

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found out for this one person that way

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back and before 1957 and probably at the

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time the secret study was being done at

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Mattel this one person said that he was

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responsible for a project that we

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acquired him to study parts that they

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represented as a reprieve from a flying

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saucer

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he said one part and one of us had

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writing on them and he was these were

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like AI beings and he was supposed to

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decipher the writing on them yeah his

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name is Johnson he's written up in

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American being of science and other

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places and he told that during his 1950s

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which was a long time before anybody

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knew anything about Rosa which is it

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would be she suggests that something was

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going on with metal back then and he was

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a metallurgist sure there are plenty of

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Roswell witnesses who said that after

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the fact talking about I beams with

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writing and so on and so forth how could

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they have known uh-huh well he nobody

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knew that then exactly unless they had

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first-hand knowledge right right

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and I I published that about 1993 I some

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1995 or somewhere and it didn't I didn't

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even realize how significant it is I

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just put it in I didn't even put a title

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for it

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but in 2007 when carrying yes right

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there book witness to Roswell they

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carried quote um for me about it and

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they told the story of John spinner who

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assisted on a baffling science

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assignment that involved the evaluation

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of a very unusual battle and after that

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I mean that's from a quote from the book

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after that it's really got into the news

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because several other people said maybe

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this is memory metal and it was in

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the on the internet for a long time

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after that night to night r''l in memory

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metal that he and you mentioned dr.

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Krauss well he published with dr. cross

277
00:17:04,059 --> 00:17:01,759
and so he would have probably would have

278
00:17:07,179 --> 00:17:04,069
probably known dr. cross and then

279
00:17:10,990 --> 00:17:07,189
working with him and another thing that

280
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:11,000
makes me think it's valid is that when

281
00:17:14,799 --> 00:17:13,010
the stay was going on it was secret I

282
00:17:16,360 --> 00:17:14,809
mean it seemed like everybody liked a

283
00:17:24,100 --> 00:17:16,370
lot of people to tell kind of knew about

284
00:17:28,139 --> 00:17:24,110
even that was top secret but he it was

285
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:28,149
recorded that he took material home

286
00:17:35,380 --> 00:17:32,090
about the UFO studying and because it

287
00:17:38,260 --> 00:17:35,390
was secret I would guess that he

288
00:17:40,810 --> 00:17:38,270
probably worked on it with cross and the

289
00:17:44,250 --> 00:17:40,820
other ones now this is dr. centaur okay

290
00:17:46,330 --> 00:17:44,260
this is dr. sentiment got it okay yeah

291
00:17:48,310 --> 00:17:46,340
so I thought this was pretty good

292
00:17:50,649 --> 00:17:48,320
evidence that something was going on

293
00:17:52,930 --> 00:17:50,659
maybe with roswell somebody was

294
00:17:54,549 --> 00:17:52,940
investigating some kind of metal and

295
00:17:56,049 --> 00:17:54,559
you're paying this this is you're

296
00:17:58,690 --> 00:17:56,059
picking this up at Battelle when you're

297
00:18:00,549 --> 00:17:58,700
working there several years after there

298
00:18:04,019 --> 00:18:00,559
they're done and gone their work there

299
00:18:09,010 --> 00:18:04,029
though is that about right yeah I

300
00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:09,020
published it in 1992 and I published it

301
00:18:20,110 --> 00:18:13,520
in a the ohio UFO notebook and it didn't

302
00:18:24,190 --> 00:18:20,120
really cause much of a stir until it was

303
00:18:28,210 --> 00:18:24,200
published in witness there was roswell

304
00:18:34,169 --> 00:18:28,220
in 2009 and then people became more

305
00:18:37,419 --> 00:18:34,179
aware of it but i talked to the person

306
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:37,429
that talked to the center I didn't know

307
00:18:42,549 --> 00:18:40,970
center I wasn't there back then but I

308
00:18:48,970 --> 00:18:42,559
talked a lot of other people about it

309
00:18:51,340 --> 00:18:48,980
too so there was still that information

310
00:18:52,899 --> 00:18:51,350
or that the institutional knowledge that

311
00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:52,909
was still kind of floating around within

312
00:18:57,909 --> 00:18:54,320
the facility

313
00:19:00,100 --> 00:18:57,919
literally a couple decades or more after

314
00:19:02,230 --> 00:19:00,110
all this had taken place this seems to

315
00:19:04,590 --> 00:19:02,240
be that significant that people still

316
00:19:11,169 --> 00:19:04,600
remember it that that much further

317
00:19:15,100 --> 00:19:11,179
before you picked up on it yes I think

318
00:19:20,789 --> 00:19:15,110
they've done a study in 1952 or

319
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:20,799
something and I published it in 1990

320
00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:25,970
1992 which was 40 years later but people

321
00:19:31,899 --> 00:19:27,679
are still talking about and they still

322
00:19:33,549 --> 00:19:31,909
do I have no doubt about that I don't

323
00:19:34,869 --> 00:19:33,559
know if you still have any contacts who

324
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:34,879
were working there or anything along

325
00:19:40,029 --> 00:19:37,450
those lines but that do you know that

326
00:19:42,430 --> 00:19:40,039
Patel or I've heard that the Battelle

327
00:19:44,110 --> 00:19:42,440
might still be doing some work for the

328
00:19:47,799 --> 00:19:44,120
government on this subject the UFO

329
00:19:51,159 --> 00:19:47,809
subject was heard they were doing it

330
00:19:53,529 --> 00:19:51,169
until recently but I'm not in contact

331
00:19:56,350 --> 00:19:53,539
with anybody it's directly working with

332
00:19:58,779 --> 00:19:56,360
anything like that right now got it okay

333
00:20:10,240 --> 00:19:58,789
do you have anything else to add about

334
00:20:13,090 --> 00:20:10,250
to have a towel well one thing that

335
00:20:15,460 --> 00:20:13,100
interesting that happened to me they

336
00:20:18,220 --> 00:20:15,470
several people said that some of the

337
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:18,230
material was stored in a safe at

338
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:19,850
Battelle I don't think it would be down

339
00:20:26,169 --> 00:20:22,370
because I don't think there they have

340
00:20:31,330 --> 00:20:26,179
enough security to do that but last year

341
00:20:33,009 --> 00:20:31,340
I was in the hotel parking lot I'm going

342
00:20:37,269 --> 00:20:33,019
in to see about something because I'd

343
00:20:40,149 --> 00:20:37,279
worked there and a person had told me

344
00:20:46,180 --> 00:20:40,159
that the projects Dork and the UFO work

345
00:20:48,399 --> 00:20:46,190
had taken place on the 4th story of this

346
00:20:52,379 --> 00:20:48,409
particular building and they told me

347
00:20:55,090 --> 00:20:52,389
there were little rings on the windows

348
00:20:56,889 --> 00:20:55,100
what that would keep people from reading

349
00:20:57,399 --> 00:20:56,899
out what they're talking about with a

350
00:21:04,330 --> 00:20:57,409
laser

351
00:21:06,669 --> 00:21:04,340
at a window and see like Tronics figure

352
00:21:08,170 --> 00:21:06,679
out what people are talking about and so

353
00:21:10,540 --> 00:21:08,180
anyway I just

354
00:21:12,780 --> 00:21:10,550
I just took out my camera and started

355
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:12,790
picking some pictures of the rounding

356
00:21:35,740 --> 00:21:16,010
windows and somebody came and threw me

357
00:21:39,030 --> 00:21:35,750
off before we move on from botella what

358
00:21:43,750 --> 00:21:39,040
initiated the study to be done a patella

359
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:43,760
it was under project Bluebook and it was

360
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:46,330
basically to devise a question in there

361
00:21:54,220 --> 00:21:49,970
where they could interview a witness on

362
00:21:57,130 --> 00:21:54,230
paper and try to get the information on

363
00:22:00,600 --> 00:21:57,140
the object they solely size and shape

364
00:22:04,810 --> 00:22:00,610
and movement and things like that and

365
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:04,820
the other part was to statistically

366
00:22:10,060 --> 00:22:08,930
study the UFO phenomenon and I think

367
00:22:12,580 --> 00:22:10,070
it's important to note we didn't get

368
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:12,590
into this but Patel is what maybe an

369
00:22:16,500 --> 00:22:14,330
hour's drive from wright-patterson Air

370
00:22:20,830 --> 00:22:16,510
Force Base

371
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:20,840
yeah about yeah so well that that

372
00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:23,330
doesn't hurt and obviously both places

373
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:25,910
are top-notch facilities but you know

374
00:22:33,340 --> 00:22:30,130
the the location never hurts

375
00:22:37,050 --> 00:22:33,350
well that's right Patterson it was the

376
00:22:42,610 --> 00:22:37,060
first known public organization to start

377
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:42,620
investigating UFOs so they you know had

378
00:22:50,740 --> 00:22:46,250
local connections and Mattel was the top

379
00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:50,750
metallurgist at that time so if anything

380
00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:53,510
had been found it likely would have gone

381
00:22:59,800 --> 00:22:58,250
the Battelle got it now they're there

382
00:23:01,930 --> 00:22:59,810
work with the military I believe goes

383
00:23:08,230 --> 00:23:01,940
back to roughly yeah when it was founded

384
00:23:12,700 --> 00:23:08,240
beca in the world war one ear huh okay

385
00:23:17,230 --> 00:23:12,710
so no I'm sorry yeah I don't know a lot

386
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:17,240
about it yes I did a little bit of

387
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:19,250
background on it going back in the day

388
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:20,850
but sometimes my memory get

389
00:23:25,700 --> 00:23:23,010
a little hazy but yeah I believe Patel

390
00:23:29,210 --> 00:23:25,710
was founded back in the World War one

391
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:29,220
ear and right back in the day it was

392
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:30,690
still right field before it became

393
00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:33,120
wright-patterson Air Force Base but they

394
00:23:38,390 --> 00:23:35,280
that was always the location for the

395
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:38,400
foreign technology division so and also

396
00:23:42,590 --> 00:23:41,250
they've got the split suppose it well

397
00:23:46,790 --> 00:23:42,600
not supposedly it's been demonstrated

398
00:23:49,310 --> 00:23:46,800
through the classified documents that

399
00:23:51,380 --> 00:23:49,320
the infamous Blue Room is located at

400
00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:51,390
wright-patterson Air Force Base did you

401
00:23:57,020 --> 00:23:53,510
ever hear much talk about that

402
00:23:59,990 --> 00:23:57,030
well actually I visited wright-patterson

403
00:24:03,620 --> 00:24:00,000
I was spent for conferences from work

404
00:24:05,210 --> 00:24:03,630
and stayed at the Hope Hotel on

405
00:24:08,620 --> 00:24:05,220
basically got to walk all over the base

406
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:08,630
but I also knew the archivist for

407
00:24:16,490 --> 00:24:12,210
wright-patterson and he took us all

408
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:16,500
through this the most highly secret

409
00:24:24,530 --> 00:24:20,930
buildings there and another thing I

410
00:24:27,500 --> 00:24:24,540
found out that might relate to the

411
00:24:32,030 --> 00:24:27,510
recent UFO work by Bigelow and stuff

412
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:32,040
that's been published is that I and

413
00:24:40,490 --> 00:24:35,570
another person he invited us to a

414
00:24:44,180 --> 00:24:40,500
meeting about UFOs and it was in the hot

415
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:44,190
the really top most secure building

416
00:24:50,330 --> 00:24:47,490
there and I think the Blue Room was in

417
00:24:52,730 --> 00:24:50,340
with that it was where it was a million

418
00:24:56,060 --> 00:24:52,740
conflicts were Blue Book and all these

419
00:24:58,610 --> 00:24:56,070
other studies had taken place so we were

420
00:25:00,320 --> 00:24:58,620
right there in the building I of course

421
00:25:05,210 --> 00:25:00,330
couldn't take pictures in the building

422
00:25:08,090 --> 00:25:05,220
but I did pick this and I'm sorry go

423
00:25:13,570 --> 00:25:08,100
ahead but what happened was a during

424
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:13,580
this meeting and the speaker said that

425
00:25:19,790 --> 00:25:16,170
everything about Project Blue Book was

426
00:25:22,370 --> 00:25:19,800
Declassified now and of course I didn't

427
00:25:23,930 --> 00:25:22,380
believe that at all and they said is

428
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:23,940
this McKee classified he said yes

429
00:25:29,900 --> 00:25:26,880
without even hesitating but anyway

430
00:25:34,690 --> 00:25:29,910
somebody stood up and said what about

431
00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:34,700
the gun camera please hahaha

432
00:25:42,530 --> 00:25:39,840
that's coming up now and him me said

433
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:42,540
what he said was I want to remind you

434
00:25:55,220 --> 00:25:45,120
there's people here without clearances

435
00:25:57,950 --> 00:25:55,230
which is me and the other what they knew

436
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:57,960
about the gun came pretty sure sure well

437
00:26:03,020 --> 00:26:01,200
if you've got gun cameras and you have a

438
00:26:05,570 --> 00:26:03,030
UFO encounter it's gonna get picked up

439
00:26:12,470 --> 00:26:05,580
I'm sure that there's a several hours of

440
00:26:15,470 --> 00:26:12,480
it somewhere now I'm sorry go ahead

441
00:26:19,460 --> 00:26:15,480
what'd you think of that the gun camera

442
00:26:21,290 --> 00:26:19,470
footage that's going on now because they

443
00:26:25,060 --> 00:26:21,300
mentioned that and it sounded like there

444
00:26:26,660 --> 00:26:25,070
was a lot more to it than what they said

445
00:26:29,210 --> 00:26:26,670
understood understood

446
00:26:31,820 --> 00:26:29,220
now you did end up by working for the

447
00:26:33,620 --> 00:26:31,830
DIA at wright-patterson either a little

448
00:26:37,670 --> 00:26:33,630
earlier a little later than now your

449
00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:37,680
work at Battelle is that right I'm tell

450
00:26:44,660 --> 00:26:42,000
later after I worked at the DIA okay and

451
00:26:47,810 --> 00:26:44,670
what did you do with the DIA did you

452
00:26:54,380 --> 00:26:47,820
have any UFO information come your way

453
00:26:58,750 --> 00:26:54,390
while you were there well what I did for

454
00:27:05,930 --> 00:26:58,760
the GIS was I was a guest 11 and that's

455
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:05,940
equal to a PhD my standard form 50 as I

456
00:27:14,450 --> 00:27:10,320
worked for the Defense Intelligence

457
00:27:17,690 --> 00:27:14,460
Agency this was in Washington DC and the

458
00:27:21,310 --> 00:27:17,700
photographic interpretation office and

459
00:27:24,830 --> 00:27:21,320
it was a Soviet East European division

460
00:27:27,410 --> 00:27:24,840
so that the work was very very very

461
00:27:29,870 --> 00:27:27,420
classified at that time because it

462
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:29,880
involved in foreign countries and so I

463
00:27:37,270 --> 00:27:32,970
had a real high security Combes and my

464
00:27:41,630 --> 00:27:37,280
work was for the progressive

465
00:27:44,870 --> 00:27:41,640
interpretation office was to we worked

466
00:27:47,390 --> 00:27:44,880
on satellite photography so that this

467
00:27:49,820 --> 00:27:47,400
was very classified it's still it's

468
00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:49,830
still going on

469
00:28:01,050 --> 00:27:54,960
and so we were looking at a wide area

470
00:28:05,490 --> 00:28:01,060
country um no I mean this was

471
00:28:09,570 --> 00:28:05,500
soviet-controlled back then and I worked

472
00:28:14,550 --> 00:28:09,580
in air orders battle and our job was to

473
00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:14,560
identify anything flying across this

474
00:28:20,670 --> 00:28:18,370
area and so we were identifying things

475
00:28:24,570 --> 00:28:20,680
like airplanes and looking for the

476
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:24,580
newest airplane development anything

477
00:28:32,750 --> 00:28:27,850
that was flying and so this was for the

478
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:32,760
DIA and you would think it would be

479
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:37,570
where they would look for UFOs because

480
00:28:45,150 --> 00:28:40,810
it felt like photography from the wide

481
00:28:55,650 --> 00:28:45,160
area of the country and it's they were

482
00:28:58,140 --> 00:28:55,660
searching for aircraft and so the reason

483
00:29:00,840 --> 00:28:58,150
this started was something I put in the

484
00:29:07,890 --> 00:29:00,850
book I'm about to put that's about to be

485
00:29:11,130 --> 00:29:07,900
published but anyway I mentioned UFOs to

486
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:11,140
my the people like total workers who

487
00:29:23,130 --> 00:29:20,530
were also in photo interpretation and I

488
00:29:26,100 --> 00:29:23,140
expected everybody just laugh and tease

489
00:29:29,850 --> 00:29:26,110
me and harass me and everything else but

490
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:29,860
that didn't happen it's dead what they

491
00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:33,610
said was that not too long before I came

492
00:29:40,020 --> 00:29:37,120
into this section they had found what

493
00:29:46,590 --> 00:29:40,030
they thought was a UFO on their

494
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:46,600
satellite photography film and it was on

495
00:29:51,540 --> 00:29:49,450
two missions a mission was naive minutes

496
00:29:53,670 --> 00:29:51,550
around where the Sally takes 90 minutes

497
00:29:55,950 --> 00:29:53,680
to go around the earth it was in a

498
00:29:57,540 --> 00:29:55,960
slightly different place it was

499
00:29:58,860 --> 00:29:57,550
something they couldn't identify and

500
00:30:01,380 --> 00:29:58,870
hadn't seen anything like it

501
00:30:02,180 --> 00:30:01,390
and so they were the top that you know

502
00:30:04,940 --> 00:30:02,190
the country

503
00:30:10,279 --> 00:30:04,950
top photo interpreters for this area and

504
00:30:14,119 --> 00:30:10,289
everything specialist and just top

505
00:30:20,930 --> 00:30:14,129
intelligence analysis people and they

506
00:30:22,730 --> 00:30:20,940
reported it as a UFO and our section

507
00:30:25,340 --> 00:30:22,740
should be who's looking for UFOs

508
00:30:27,430 --> 00:30:25,350
actually but nobody was sitting about

509
00:30:32,659 --> 00:30:27,440
UFOs to us and we had to need to know

510
00:30:34,970 --> 00:30:32,669
but the the people came back that we

511
00:30:36,769 --> 00:30:34,980
reported it to it might have been the

512
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:36,779
CIA but I had a feeling there was a

513
00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:41,850
higher government iclone than that but

514
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:44,159
they said we didn't see anything that

515
00:30:50,810 --> 00:30:47,730
this was a spot on the film and we just

516
00:30:53,990 --> 00:30:50,820
didn't know what we were doing I mean I

517
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:54,000
looked at later and it obviously wasn't

518
00:31:04,519 --> 00:30:57,210
because it was on two films you could

519
00:31:08,629 --> 00:31:04,529
see them both in detail and so the head

520
00:31:11,299 --> 00:31:08,639
of my department sent it to some

521
00:31:13,369 --> 00:31:11,309
specialists to look at it I think

522
00:31:15,139 --> 00:31:13,379
they're called since they call it

523
00:31:18,529 --> 00:31:15,149
sensing density I think it's sent some

524
00:31:22,249 --> 00:31:18,539
men that's a million three or whatever

525
00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:22,259
and they said no that's not a spot on

526
00:31:26,029 --> 00:31:23,039
the film

527
00:31:29,299 --> 00:31:26,039
that's something real and they recruited

528
00:31:31,159 --> 00:31:29,309
that to the higher-ups again their

529
00:31:33,139 --> 00:31:31,169
higher-ups again said no you're seeing

530
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:33,149
things look spot on the film and that

531
00:31:36,740 --> 00:31:36,000
was just a totally ridiculous thing to

532
00:31:38,509 --> 00:31:36,750
say

533
00:31:41,619 --> 00:31:38,519
and it wasn't professional either

534
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:41,629
because like if they had made a mistake

535
00:31:47,659 --> 00:31:45,330
the higher-ups should explain her in

536
00:31:49,669 --> 00:31:47,669
mistake is because that was important to

537
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:49,679
work on you know spying on another

538
00:31:55,460 --> 00:31:52,080
country and you know it could relate to

539
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:55,470
wars and things like that and so they

540
00:32:00,710 --> 00:31:57,690
were pretty amazed and nobody laughed at

541
00:32:02,299 --> 00:32:00,720
me when I mentioned that so so the

542
00:32:03,889 --> 00:32:02,309
experts are getting overruled by the

543
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:03,899
bureaucrats essentially is what it

544
00:32:09,580 --> 00:32:05,330
sounds like

545
00:32:13,850 --> 00:32:09,590
yeah they works but in relation to the

546
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:13,860
the Bigelow information that just came

547
00:32:18,890 --> 00:32:16,080
out well

548
00:32:21,790 --> 00:32:18,900
and that has something there was a dia

549
00:32:24,620 --> 00:32:21,800
to the Defense Intelligence Agency

550
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:24,630
Weishaupt way back then that there's

551
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:27,930
some really high classified area in the

552
00:32:33,020 --> 00:32:31,650
government that studies UFOs because I

553
00:32:37,010 --> 00:32:33,030
couldn't figure out why they would give

554
00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:37,020
such a ridiculous answer to us and claim

555
00:32:42,590 --> 00:32:39,510
didn't exist just like you know just

556
00:32:46,370 --> 00:32:42,600
like we just came out of seeing asylum

557
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:46,380
or something when we really specialist

558
00:32:58,340 --> 00:32:53,690
and so with that with the Bigelow study

559
00:33:00,800 --> 00:32:58,350
read and everybody I view I kind of

560
00:33:02,090 --> 00:33:00,810
viewed that as sort of a branch I mean

561
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:02,100
they got it into the government

562
00:33:07,090 --> 00:33:05,010
everything but I had the feeling that

563
00:33:10,010 --> 00:33:07,100
there's something way higher than that

564
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:10,020
it's studying UFOs just from my

565
00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:13,290
experience with the DIA and that they'd

566
00:33:15,850 --> 00:33:14,910
been probably studying it for a long

567
00:33:18,050 --> 00:33:15,860
time

568
00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:18,060
understood well since we're on this

569
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:21,120
track a very interesting bit of

570
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:22,530
information that became available

571
00:33:29,030 --> 00:33:26,490
through a channel 8 in Las Vegas that's

572
00:33:31,940 --> 00:33:29,040
the the station that George Knapp works

573
00:33:34,550 --> 00:33:31,950
for does a lot of interviews and has

574
00:33:36,650 --> 00:33:34,560
been covering that the UFO subject when

575
00:33:40,010 --> 00:33:36,660
it heats up for decades now I believe

576
00:33:42,830 --> 00:33:40,020
and this is at their site the Las Vegas

577
00:33:44,900 --> 00:33:42,840
now.com site I will post a link to this

578
00:33:47,690 --> 00:33:44,910
as well but it's a statement from a

579
00:33:50,900 --> 00:33:47,700
senior manager of a bass which is a

580
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:50,910
Bigelow's aerospace company and

581
00:33:55,820 --> 00:33:54,210
basically what he says and from this and

582
00:33:58,760 --> 00:33:55,830
what I want to lead into is some

583
00:34:01,250 --> 00:33:58,770
questions about the research of a Harley

584
00:34:02,330 --> 00:34:01,260
Rutledge from several years ago I

585
00:34:04,910 --> 00:34:02,340
thought that that was a pretty

586
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:04,920
interesting topic that you go into a

587
00:34:12,020 --> 00:34:09,330
great bit of detail about but that what

588
00:34:15,710 --> 00:34:12,030
it says here is a one sentence from the

589
00:34:18,380 --> 00:34:15,720
statement from this unknown project

590
00:34:20,540 --> 00:34:18,390
manager who works for bass this novel

591
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:20,550
approach aimed to circumvent the

592
00:34:26,240 --> 00:34:22,770
increasing evidence of deception and

593
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:26,250
subterfuge by the UFO phenomenon in that

594
00:34:29,359 --> 00:34:29,130
multiple eyewitnesses co-located in the

595
00:34:31,730 --> 00:34:29,369
same

596
00:34:35,839 --> 00:34:31,740
vicinity frequently reported seeing

597
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:35,849
widely different events so the evidence

598
00:34:40,279 --> 00:34:38,249
was multiplying that the UFO phenomenon

599
00:34:42,019 --> 00:34:40,289
was capable of manipulating and

600
00:34:44,419 --> 00:34:42,029
distorting human perception and

601
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:44,429
therefore eyewitness testimony of you

602
00:34:50,450 --> 00:34:47,490
act UFO activity was becoming uncreate

603
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:50,460
increasingly untrustworthy now I'm going

604
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:52,649
back to Rutledge I note in your book

605
00:35:00,079 --> 00:34:57,119
that he set up an experiment study to

606
00:35:02,529 --> 00:35:00,089
look at UFOs and what he came across was

607
00:35:05,779 --> 00:35:02,539
he would set up a recording instruments

608
00:35:09,140 --> 00:35:05,789
of different types to try to record

609
00:35:12,079 --> 00:35:09,150
these videos or this this data this

610
00:35:15,259 --> 00:35:12,089
information and the results that he was

611
00:35:17,269 --> 00:35:15,269
getting is the UFOs seem to know that

612
00:35:19,849 --> 00:35:17,279
they were being recorded that this gear

613
00:35:22,999 --> 00:35:19,859
was being set up and took proactive

614
00:35:27,739 --> 00:35:23,009
measures to avoid being recorded is that

615
00:35:32,779 --> 00:35:27,749
about right yes I wrote to him for

616
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:32,789
several years and that was right and he

617
00:35:41,380 --> 00:35:37,650
also they set up a viewing area it was

618
00:35:44,930 --> 00:35:41,390
like Howard crop Harold crossing

619
00:35:46,999 --> 00:35:44,940
recommended from Mattel they Mattel that

620
00:35:50,509 --> 00:35:47,009
had a real good idea about setting up a

621
00:35:52,789 --> 00:35:50,519
particular viewing area and monitoring

622
00:35:54,759 --> 00:35:52,799
everything and even putting out some

623
00:35:58,069 --> 00:35:54,769
different things that might be

624
00:36:01,249 --> 00:35:58,079
interpreted as UFOs and studying their

625
00:36:07,579 --> 00:36:01,259
reaction and this was they were going to

626
00:36:09,579 --> 00:36:07,589
use mass spectometry it and different

627
00:36:13,549 --> 00:36:09,589
things like that to interpret the

628
00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:13,559
photographs they were taking and it was

629
00:36:23,989 --> 00:36:19,440
just an excellent idea that it was it

630
00:36:27,019 --> 00:36:23,999
was in the pinnacle memorandum but I had

631
00:36:29,329 --> 00:36:27,029
a lot more information than that for the

632
00:36:31,039 --> 00:36:29,339
actual study they were going to do but

633
00:36:34,660 --> 00:36:31,049
the government didn't fund it and that

634
00:36:37,220 --> 00:36:34,670
would have been just a super good study

635
00:36:41,569 --> 00:36:37,230
where they where to find out a lot but

636
00:36:43,100 --> 00:36:41,579
that's kind of like what Rutledge did he

637
00:36:46,170 --> 00:36:43,110
had a study area

638
00:36:48,330 --> 00:36:46,180
and he set up viewing stations and this

639
00:36:51,300 --> 00:36:48,340
is like you do you know with a regular

640
00:36:54,030 --> 00:36:51,310
scientific experiment if you were

641
00:36:57,770 --> 00:36:54,040
studying animal behavior or something he

642
00:37:00,060 --> 00:36:57,780
set it up the same way and so they could

643
00:37:03,740 --> 00:37:00,070
tell through each other from station to

644
00:37:08,190 --> 00:37:03,750
station and watch a UFO come and

645
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:08,200
sometimes the UFOs did these things such

646
00:37:11,850 --> 00:37:10,210
as they would be traveling along like

647
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:11,860
they were just busily traveling along

648
00:37:19,110 --> 00:37:15,520
and then make a detour around a station

649
00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:19,120
and things like that okay at the

650
00:37:22,410 --> 00:37:20,710
timeframe for this just to clear it up

651
00:37:24,090 --> 00:37:22,420
for folks listening at home I was not

652
00:37:26,010 --> 00:37:24,100
familiar with Rutledge's work and I'd

653
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:26,020
like to think that I know a lot about

654
00:37:30,210 --> 00:37:27,970
this subject there's always new things

655
00:37:32,370 --> 00:37:30,220
to find out the timeframe for this is

656
00:37:38,250 --> 00:37:32,380
roughly the early 70s when he was doing

657
00:37:41,550 --> 00:37:38,260
this work it was it was early in 1973 he

658
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:41,560
continued for that on but what was

659
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:42,970
interesting about his work was that

660
00:37:48,540 --> 00:37:45,850
there was a flap or a wave going on and

661
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:48,550
so normally if you wanted to photograph

662
00:37:53,070 --> 00:37:50,770
the UFO you could sit in a field your

663
00:37:54,660 --> 00:37:53,080
whole life and not see anything but at

664
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:54,670
that time there was a whole lot of

665
00:38:00,420 --> 00:37:57,570
sightings and so they had an ideal

666
00:38:01,850 --> 00:38:00,430
situation to set up their study because

667
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:01,860
that's just something it doesn't happen

668
00:38:07,620 --> 00:38:04,450
and so they were very lucky on that when

669
00:38:10,590 --> 00:38:07,630
he was he's a physical professor and he

670
00:38:12,330 --> 00:38:10,600
was the head of department and something

671
00:38:24,180 --> 00:38:12,340
was very well qualified me set up the

672
00:38:27,170 --> 00:38:24,190
stations with other science God so you

673
00:38:34,050 --> 00:38:27,180
also I'm sorry go ahead

674
00:38:37,170 --> 00:38:34,060
you know the UFOs seem to be interactive

675
00:38:40,490 --> 00:38:37,180
with them and they study their behavior

676
00:38:44,700 --> 00:38:40,500
besides you Sonia's physical properties

677
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:44,710
and he said when certain UFOs came

678
00:38:49,830 --> 00:38:46,810
within the range of measurement they

679
00:38:53,310 --> 00:38:49,840
would move change course or halt on 30

680
00:38:56,620 --> 00:38:53,320
occasions the movements of the object

681
00:38:59,650 --> 00:38:56,630
synchronize without the actions of the

682
00:39:02,890 --> 00:38:59,660
servers and the objects sometimes

683
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:02,900
responded to the observers by switching

684
00:39:09,490 --> 00:39:06,290
their lights off and on they responded

685
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:09,500
their verbal and radio messages swinging

686
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:13,690
and aiming and things like that in the

687
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:16,130
Europe those who respond to that make

688
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:18,890
such things as switching their lights

689
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:21,410
off and on and things like that so they

690
00:39:29,470 --> 00:39:26,330
actually had a recording of the UFOs

691
00:39:31,150 --> 00:39:29,480
responding the things they did and was

692
00:39:36,460 --> 00:39:31,160
amazed one of the most amazing things

693
00:39:41,170 --> 00:39:36,470
thanks but that was the UFOs for some

694
00:39:44,290 --> 00:39:41,180
reason would disguise themselves as a

695
00:39:46,990 --> 00:39:44,300
star and somehow they would get right

696
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:47,000
between the observer and this star which

697
00:39:53,410 --> 00:39:50,930
is just impossible to do and look like

698
00:39:55,570 --> 00:39:53,420
the star in the right position and I

699
00:39:58,060 --> 00:39:55,580
have no idea why you were doing that but

700
00:40:01,830 --> 00:39:58,070
he recorded that a number of times and

701
00:40:04,770 --> 00:40:01,840
that would be really really hard to do

702
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:04,780
exactly and this sounds that like Cassim

703
00:40:09,220 --> 00:40:07,610
this sounds like some kind of a weird

704
00:40:11,830 --> 00:40:09,230
this behavior sounds like some kind of

705
00:40:19,630 --> 00:40:11,840
weird variant on the of the double slit

706
00:40:24,340 --> 00:40:19,640
experiment almost I do you have anything

707
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:24,350
more on Rutledge and his work I have

708
00:40:31,060 --> 00:40:27,410
quite a bit a lot about it in my next

709
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:31,070
book that's coming out okay then now

710
00:40:35,650 --> 00:40:33,410
let's add let's wait for that then we'll

711
00:40:38,650 --> 00:40:35,660
get to plugging your new book before we

712
00:40:41,590 --> 00:40:38,660
wrap up here also what you've done there

713
00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:41,600
some MUFON investigating fieldwork and

714
00:40:47,230 --> 00:40:43,910
there have been a number of great cases

715
00:40:48,700 --> 00:40:47,240
in Ohio a couple of them that really

716
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:48,710
stand out that have gotten a lot of

717
00:40:53,170 --> 00:40:50,810
attention over the years one is there

718
00:40:55,570 --> 00:40:53,180
the famous Portage County police car

719
00:40:57,420 --> 00:40:55,580
chase that some folks if they've ever

720
00:41:00,430 --> 00:40:57,430
seen Close Encounters of the Third Kind

721
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:00,440
that was actually a dramatized at least

722
00:41:05,710 --> 00:41:03,290
to an extent with the cars chasing the

723
00:41:07,420 --> 00:41:05,720
UFOs where Richard Dreyfuss is forced

724
00:41:09,430 --> 00:41:07,430
off the road that Hill he gets hit by

725
00:41:10,779 --> 00:41:09,440
the the speeding police cars and that

726
00:41:13,659 --> 00:41:10,789
they drive across

727
00:41:16,799 --> 00:41:13,669
the state line and all that but that is

728
00:41:20,679 --> 00:41:16,809
actually based on a real case where some

729
00:41:23,949 --> 00:41:20,689
police from Portage County Ohio which is

730
00:41:25,179 --> 00:41:23,959
a good 30 to 40 minutes from the Ohio

731
00:41:29,259 --> 00:41:25,189
Pennsylvania line

732
00:41:30,579 --> 00:41:29,269
we're following a UFO traveling east and

733
00:41:33,039 --> 00:41:30,589
they followed it all the way into

734
00:41:35,499 --> 00:41:33,049
Pennsylvania you did some follow-up work

735
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:35,509
on that case and I wanted to give the

736
00:41:43,089 --> 00:41:37,249
folks a little bit of details about that

737
00:41:48,189 --> 00:41:43,099
now what you did I was able to get the

738
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:48,199
original report and look it over and I

739
00:41:59,199 --> 00:41:51,890
think this is one of the best sightings

740
00:42:01,749 --> 00:41:59,209
ever because it was interactive and one

741
00:42:06,609 --> 00:42:01,759
thing really amazing about it was that

742
00:42:09,130 --> 00:42:06,619
the police were in contact with the

743
00:42:11,380 --> 00:42:09,140
police were the sires and they were in

744
00:42:18,699 --> 00:42:11,390
contact with their office the whole time

745
00:42:22,659 --> 00:42:18,709
by radio the whole time that went on and

746
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:22,669
I also think that it was probably

747
00:42:26,979 --> 00:42:23,839
something the government knew about

748
00:42:31,569 --> 00:42:26,989
because there were several portions of

749
00:42:33,339 --> 00:42:31,579
it that where there was either some

750
00:42:37,799 --> 00:42:33,349
information that was disguised there's

751
00:42:41,409 --> 00:42:37,809
some information such as that they

752
00:42:47,229 --> 00:42:41,419
scrambled jets and things like that it

753
00:42:50,890 --> 00:42:47,239
took place in April 1966 and it was the

754
00:42:57,370 --> 00:42:50,900
people that thought were getting as far

755
00:42:59,890 --> 00:42:57,380
and this who were two policemen and it

756
00:43:01,359 --> 00:42:59,900
started out in Michigan which is another

757
00:43:05,499 --> 00:43:01,369
thing that made me think the government

758
00:43:11,380 --> 00:43:05,509
know about somebody in Michigan had

759
00:43:17,739 --> 00:43:11,390
reported that they in Benton Harbor that

760
00:43:19,539 --> 00:43:17,749
they saw an object if it's really

761
00:43:24,249 --> 00:43:19,549
dazzling brightness they couldn't even

762
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:24,259
look at it and far enough were some

763
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:24,610
police

764
00:43:37,460 --> 00:43:26,970
work they heard about and they laughed

765
00:43:50,220 --> 00:43:42,210
investigating a car that was off the

766
00:43:52,890 --> 00:43:50,230
road and they saw interesting and that's

767
00:43:55,470 --> 00:43:52,900
the car had emblem of a triangle and

768
00:43:57,720 --> 00:43:55,480
bull of lightning and the word seven

769
00:44:00,630 --> 00:43:57,730
steps to hell while they were

770
00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:00,640
investigating this car they saw this

771
00:44:06,860 --> 00:44:02,710
bright object in sky they had just

772
00:44:09,450 --> 00:44:06,870
laughed at the report from Michigan and

773
00:44:12,990 --> 00:44:09,460
they saw it kind of rise from the

774
00:44:16,140 --> 00:44:13,000
horizon and they thought it was about 25

775
00:44:20,130 --> 00:44:16,150
steamed overhead and it bathed them in a

776
00:44:23,610 --> 00:44:20,140
real bright light well they were pretty

777
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:23,620
terrified and it was very close to him

778
00:44:33,140 --> 00:44:26,130
and just as bright as you could imagine

779
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:33,150
and so they called their police office

780
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:36,370
and asked what to do and they were on

781
00:44:42,990 --> 00:44:38,970
the radio from then on well they're

782
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:43,000
higher up said shoot it and they had

783
00:44:49,710 --> 00:44:46,090
really big second thoughts about that so

784
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:49,720
they didn't they got near police cruiser

785
00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:52,450
to because they were created getting

786
00:44:57,990 --> 00:44:54,480
burned because the light was so bright

787
00:45:00,930 --> 00:44:58,000
just let me jump in here really quick

788
00:45:03,930 --> 00:45:00,940
there was a follow-up article from local

789
00:45:05,940 --> 00:45:03,940
media in Portage County within the last

790
00:45:08,790 --> 00:45:05,950
couple of years where they interviewed

791
00:45:12,030 --> 00:45:08,800
Neff son and he said that his dad told

792
00:45:15,390 --> 00:45:12,040
him that he literally felt the heat from

793
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:15,400
this UFO he felt it like he was warm in

794
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:19,210
the area because of the UFO well I

795
00:45:24,060 --> 00:45:20,530
believe that because they were just

796
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:24,070
terrified and they thought they might be

797
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:29,770
burning and I mean it was a real bright

798
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:33,760
light right over and I guess they heard

799
00:45:38,370 --> 00:45:37,090
hum like a transformer - they he was

800
00:45:40,710 --> 00:45:38,380
described in stuff

801
00:45:44,580 --> 00:45:40,720
petrified and he was free couldn't even

802
00:45:48,420 --> 00:45:44,590
move and then he moved and then they

803
00:45:51,150 --> 00:45:48,430
both ran for the card so it was a pretty

804
00:45:54,780 --> 00:45:51,160
traumatic experience right in the

805
00:45:56,460 --> 00:45:54,790
beginning and so from Portage County I'm

806
00:45:58,650 --> 00:45:56,470
not sure exactly how far they kept

807
00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:58,660
following the object into Pennsylvania

808
00:46:05,370 --> 00:46:00,880
but that that's probably the better part

809
00:46:07,230 --> 00:46:05,380
of a even at high speeds at least 45

810
00:46:10,290 --> 00:46:07,240
minutes to an hour chase that they were

811
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:10,300
following this but was a lot more

812
00:46:16,410 --> 00:46:13,690
complex than that because the UFO

813
00:46:18,900 --> 00:46:16,420
apparently was interactive and they

814
00:46:21,990 --> 00:46:18,910
reported several times of when it went

815
00:46:24,090 --> 00:46:22,000
over a city it would rise up and go over

816
00:46:27,090 --> 00:46:24,100
then come back down and they also

817
00:46:32,630 --> 00:46:27,100
reported that when they got delayed at

818
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:39,210
mean it was interactive and they

819
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:41,290
followed it through several roads but

820
00:46:45,780 --> 00:46:43,570
they were on the police radio the whole

821
00:46:49,470 --> 00:46:45,790
time and there were a whole lot of other

822
00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:49,480
witnesses including policemen that also

823
00:46:57,900 --> 00:46:53,920
sought and they also with several

824
00:47:03,510 --> 00:46:57,910
airports there are newspaper articles

825
00:47:08,850 --> 00:47:03,520
that people had watched jets things

826
00:47:11,820 --> 00:47:08,860
scrambled to chase it the Air Force

827
00:47:15,660 --> 00:47:11,830
never admitted that but people saw it I

828
00:47:18,780 --> 00:47:15,670
mean when was youngstown airbase airport

829
00:47:21,630 --> 00:47:18,790
yeah get the scrambled it the thing only

830
00:47:26,610 --> 00:47:21,640
went about 100 miles an hour so they

831
00:47:32,060 --> 00:47:26,620
couldn't follow it with jets and because

832
00:47:34,890 --> 00:47:32,070
of its speed it was pretty slow and

833
00:47:40,470 --> 00:47:34,900
there were a number of other policemen

834
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:40,480
joining the chase - and they also saw

835
00:47:50,750 --> 00:47:44,170
the moon and Venus at the same time they

836
00:47:55,830 --> 00:47:52,530
the air traffic

837
00:48:05,060 --> 00:47:55,840
controller confirmed that an object was

838
00:48:14,550 --> 00:48:09,210
chatter on this police radio about just

839
00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:14,560
being scrambled and so this was just an

840
00:48:22,130 --> 00:48:21,250
amazing sighting that was I'm sorry I

841
00:48:25,350 --> 00:48:22,140
keep going

842
00:48:33,210 --> 00:48:25,360
well they thought that the object was

843
00:48:37,250 --> 00:48:33,220
modern monitoring their radio calls to

844
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:37,260
their office and in one place they said

845
00:48:42,510 --> 00:48:40,690
they started talking about fighter

846
00:48:48,740 --> 00:48:42,520
planes and just like that the UFO just

847
00:48:51,810 --> 00:48:48,750
shot up when it stood back a lot of

848
00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:51,820
interaction there actually but it turned

849
00:48:58,440 --> 00:48:56,250
out really bad because the Air Force

850
00:49:01,410 --> 00:48:58,450
said that they hadn't seen anything

851
00:49:03,180 --> 00:49:01,420
they'd seen Venus and they chased it

852
00:49:06,300 --> 00:49:03,190
through all this

853
00:49:07,830 --> 00:49:06,310
like you said many many miles with

854
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:07,840
different policemen and everything else

855
00:49:16,830 --> 00:49:10,690
but the project Bluebook hadn't said

856
00:49:18,870 --> 00:49:16,840
well you sold Venus for their lives and

857
00:49:23,850 --> 00:49:18,880
it just ruined their lives everybody

858
00:49:26,430 --> 00:49:23,860
that was connected with it now another

859
00:49:30,780 --> 00:49:26,440
case that I'm sorry keep going yeah if

860
00:49:33,300 --> 00:49:30,790
you have more that decree okay now

861
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:33,310
another big case that took place in Ohio

862
00:49:38,310 --> 00:49:35,650
a very famous case was the the coin

863
00:49:40,650 --> 00:49:38,320
helicopter case involving a National

864
00:49:43,530 --> 00:49:40,660
Guard helicopter piloted by Lawrence

865
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:43,540
coin and he had an interaction with the

866
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:46,330
UFO that was also witnessed by civilians

867
00:49:50,250 --> 00:49:48,610
on the ground and you've taken a closer

868
00:49:51,950 --> 00:49:50,260
look at that case as well can you tell

869
00:50:04,980 --> 00:49:51,960
us about that

870
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:04,990
yeah the coin they were on their way

871
00:50:07,770 --> 00:50:06,130
from

872
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:07,780
poor Thomas through the Cleveland

873
00:50:13,500 --> 00:50:11,290
International Airport and just flying

874
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:13,510
around their helicopter I think it was

875
00:50:20,790 --> 00:50:16,690
really late at night and it was in 1973

876
00:50:26,220 --> 00:50:20,800
which was wearing a flak with Rutledge

877
00:50:35,100 --> 00:50:26,230
also had studied the UFOs there was a

878
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:35,110
big flap at that time the the first you

879
00:50:39,260 --> 00:50:37,330
saw this light out and he didn't pay too

880
00:50:41,490 --> 00:50:39,270
much attention to it thought it was yes

881
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:41,500
but then they noticed it was coming

882
00:50:50,700 --> 00:50:49,330
toward him real fast and then they

883
00:50:54,350 --> 00:50:50,710
thought they were going to crash and

884
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:54,360
they put the coin put it into a dive and

885
00:51:01,070 --> 00:50:57,370
the object hovered right above them it

886
00:51:04,020 --> 00:51:01,080
was a big object I mean they could see a

887
00:51:08,580 --> 00:51:04,030
very vaguely she had dome with windows

888
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:08,590
and things that had lights on a red

889
00:51:15,300 --> 00:51:11,170
light and I quite like in a green light

890
00:51:17,700 --> 00:51:15,310
and they see the thing stopped right

891
00:51:20,060 --> 00:51:17,710
above them it wasn't for very long but

892
00:51:22,860 --> 00:51:20,070
it certainly wasn't a meteor and I heard

893
00:51:26,790 --> 00:51:22,870
I was at a radio station listening with

894
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:26,800
somebody the baby bunker and they do

895
00:51:31,980 --> 00:51:29,200
bunker said oh that's a meteorite well I

896
00:51:34,590 --> 00:51:31,990
mean a meteor but it wasn't because its

897
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:34,600
hovered over them if nothing very long

898
00:51:42,140 --> 00:51:36,850
but its hovered over and it also changed

899
00:51:46,770 --> 00:51:42,150
course and the object show shined a

900
00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:46,780
green light down on well it was hovering

901
00:52:00,420 --> 00:51:54,160
over him and the light shining of the

902
00:52:03,990 --> 00:52:00,430
cabin it turned the whole cavity green

903
00:52:13,830 --> 00:52:04,000
and they said hit him directly in the

904
00:52:15,780 --> 00:52:13,840
face and so what happened then was it

905
00:52:17,310 --> 00:52:15,790
think about that we're innocent

906
00:52:18,850 --> 00:52:17,320
in those days and they were about to hit

907
00:52:21,970 --> 00:52:18,860
the ground and they

908
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:21,980
they discovered their way up the air so

909
00:52:28,300 --> 00:52:24,650
that this beam not only was something

910
00:52:31,390 --> 00:52:28,310
they saw but it was also seemed to be

911
00:52:34,060 --> 00:52:31,400
someone tractor being cause they're not

912
00:52:36,430 --> 00:52:34,070
the crashing of the ground it was a very

913
00:52:38,650 --> 00:52:36,440
very bright beam because people even saw

914
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:38,660
it on ground it lit up the ground below

915
00:52:46,780 --> 00:52:43,370
it and there was

916
00:52:48,790 --> 00:52:46,790
I'm sorry keep going know what no no

917
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:48,800
well yeah I was also gonna say there was

918
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:50,930
I there was quite a few ground witnesses

919
00:52:56,650 --> 00:52:52,610
to this incident as well it wasn't just

920
00:52:59,170 --> 00:52:56,660
the guys in the helicopter yeah and the

921
00:53:01,300 --> 00:52:59,180
ground witnesses saw the direction

922
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:01,310
everything was going to so it was the

923
00:53:06,100 --> 00:53:03,770
people in the helicopter thinking it had

924
00:53:07,570 --> 00:53:06,110
stopped over him and changed course and

925
00:53:12,490 --> 00:53:07,580
things with people on the ground so that

926
00:53:16,050 --> 00:53:12,500
- and I go into this a little more in my

927
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:16,060
new book - but they said that the

928
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:20,450
magnetic compass was rotating those four

929
00:53:26,500 --> 00:53:23,170
times per minute and the altimeter

930
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:26,510
certainly read way up where they

931
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:28,330
something with nose-diving

932
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:32,290
which they would be hard to explain but

933
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:34,730
you'd think that maybe there was

934
00:53:41,220 --> 00:53:37,370
something in the beam it was throwing

935
00:53:44,260 --> 00:53:41,230
off their compass or something and I

936
00:53:46,930 --> 00:53:44,270
interviewed a electrician about that and

937
00:53:49,810 --> 00:53:46,940
that's when my new book - what do you

938
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:49,820
had to say about got it so you've got

939
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:52,130
the you've got the the book that's

940
00:53:57,700 --> 00:53:54,650
already out the one that I read UFOs

941
00:54:00,400 --> 00:53:57,710
today 70 years of lies misinformation

942
00:54:04,180 --> 00:54:00,410
and government cover-up tell us about

943
00:54:13,390 --> 00:54:04,190
that the new book that's coming out well

944
00:54:16,990 --> 00:54:13,400
my new book is it is to refute the

945
00:54:21,340 --> 00:54:17,000
general idea the general idea that's

946
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:21,350
used to attack UFOs is it's not accepted

947
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:25,130
by science no scientist ever see UFOs

948
00:54:30,460 --> 00:54:27,650
and there's nothing about it in the

949
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:30,470
scientific literature and that's what

950
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:32,610
they used to refute us

951
00:54:41,270 --> 00:54:36,690
Oh phenomena ever since it started what

952
00:54:45,260 --> 00:54:41,280
my do book is about is reasons for the

953
00:54:48,460 --> 00:54:45,270
receiving this and it's somewhat

954
00:54:51,110 --> 00:54:48,470
personal and this is because I have

955
00:54:53,540 --> 00:54:51,120
psychic training I've been a professor

956
00:54:56,630 --> 00:54:53,550
and have a PhD and everything so I could

957
00:55:00,490 --> 00:54:56,640
say you know I have second training work

958
00:55:06,980 --> 00:55:00,500
in sight well I've also had UFO

959
00:55:11,870 --> 00:55:06,990
experiences too and with other people

960
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:11,880
and so I covered that in my book but I

961
00:55:19,250 --> 00:55:17,130
also recorded some of the information to

962
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:19,260
the scientific literature I submitted it

963
00:55:24,230 --> 00:55:22,170
to thinking journals and it was accepted

964
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:24,240
and published and so when they said

965
00:55:29,540 --> 00:55:26,130
there's nothing in peer-reviewed

966
00:55:31,700 --> 00:55:29,550
scientific journals about UFOs well

967
00:55:38,330 --> 00:55:31,710
there is because I put some in and I

968
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:38,340
show the papers in a nice look one

969
00:55:45,980 --> 00:55:41,610
interesting thing was when I was working

970
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:45,990
for the DIA what caused me to originally

971
00:55:54,470 --> 00:55:52,650
bring up the subject of UFOs was that my

972
00:55:58,280 --> 00:55:54,480
sister and I had just had an experience

973
00:56:00,320 --> 00:55:58,290
with him and they always say just crazy

974
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:00,330
people see UFOs you have to be a lunatic

975
00:56:05,180 --> 00:56:02,850
you have to escape from them silent

976
00:56:09,980 --> 00:56:05,190
things like that well I was working for

977
00:56:12,140 --> 00:56:09,990
the DIA I had a PhD level job and I had

978
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:12,150
high security clearances that take years

979
00:56:19,490 --> 00:56:15,450
to get and I wasn't crazy or anything

980
00:56:24,500 --> 00:56:19,500
and my sister was going to post graduate

981
00:56:25,910 --> 00:56:24,510
work at Drew University and we just we

982
00:56:27,950 --> 00:56:25,920
weren't the last thing was thinking

983
00:56:30,980 --> 00:56:27,960
about rudolfo's but we just we were both

984
00:56:33,620 --> 00:56:30,990
on the East Coast and so we decide to go

985
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:33,630
up and see the New England state I was

986
00:56:39,530 --> 00:56:36,330
in Washington DC and she was in Madison

987
00:56:42,230 --> 00:56:39,540
New Jersey and so I took some co-workers

988
00:56:43,730 --> 00:56:42,240
with me and went to Madison New Jersey

989
00:56:46,220 --> 00:56:43,740
and took pictures of her and the

990
00:56:49,790 --> 00:56:46,230
co-workers and everything by her dorm

991
00:56:52,250 --> 00:56:49,800
and then we left and 1c Boston and so he

992
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:52,260
grew up the Boston well we got there and

993
00:56:57,380 --> 00:56:55,050
it was still daylight and so we decided

994
00:56:59,900 --> 00:56:57,390
to just go up and see more of the New

995
00:57:02,480 --> 00:56:59,910
England states and we way around the

996
00:57:06,740 --> 00:57:02,490
outer belt of Boston which in that time

997
00:57:10,190 --> 00:57:06,750
was Route 128 and then we went on round

998
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:10,200
three up in the New Hampshire well I

999
00:57:17,650 --> 00:57:12,810
found out later that we were in the area

1000
00:57:21,319 --> 00:57:17,660
where some of the Betty and Barney Hill

1001
00:57:23,710 --> 00:57:21,329
observation experience took place and we

1002
00:57:27,890 --> 00:57:23,720
didn't know that then and we came back

1003
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:27,900
to Boston and start looking for motels

1004
00:57:35,210 --> 00:57:30,930
we didn't find anything and this was

1005
00:57:38,510 --> 00:57:35,220
before it was in 1968 before cellphones

1006
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:38,520
or anything and so we were coming out of

1007
00:57:46,700 --> 00:57:43,290
Boston I think it was on route 9 and my

1008
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:46,710
sister kept looking to the south and we

1009
00:57:51,130 --> 00:57:48,930
saw this really funny thing we could see

1010
00:57:54,410 --> 00:57:51,140
airplanes going by that we're landing an

1011
00:57:59,180 --> 00:57:54,420
airport in the area but there was this

1012
00:58:01,700 --> 00:57:59,190
really funny thing also in the air it

1013
00:58:03,829 --> 00:58:01,710
was a light it was blinking a lot

1014
00:58:05,690 --> 00:58:03,839
differently than a strobe light or

1015
00:58:07,790 --> 00:58:05,700
anything we didn't see any other lights

1016
00:58:12,620 --> 00:58:07,800
on it it seemed to be following the

1017
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:12,630
freeway very low and my sister kept

1018
00:58:17,660 --> 00:58:14,970
saying look at that that's different

1019
00:58:19,190 --> 00:58:17,670
apparently she said I didn't notice it

1020
00:58:20,990 --> 00:58:19,200
because I was driving she said it would

1021
00:58:23,329 --> 00:58:21,000
be one place and then it just be another

1022
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:23,339
place and you couldn't even see it going

1023
00:58:26,569 --> 00:58:25,050
from one place to another but it was

1024
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:26,579
very distinctive so you couldn't miss

1025
00:58:35,180 --> 00:58:33,210
what it was and so we hadn't been

1026
00:58:37,900 --> 00:58:35,190
allowed to talk about UFOs one of the

1027
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:37,910
kids although we probably had a sighting

1028
00:58:43,490 --> 00:58:40,890
when we were younger and I mentioned

1029
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:43,500
that to her and she said she'd had a

1030
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:45,119
sighting too and we never talked about

1031
00:58:48,620 --> 00:58:46,170
that before

1032
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:48,630
far we were on the road looking this

1033
00:58:57,589 --> 00:58:54,810
thing so we went down 95 and we just had

1034
00:58:59,330 --> 00:58:57,599
a bunch of really weird experiences it

1035
00:59:01,190 --> 00:58:59,340
couldn't believe

1036
00:59:06,980 --> 00:59:01,200
and so that's why I brought up the

1037
00:59:09,980 --> 00:59:06,990
subject of UFOs at work so anyway I go

1038
00:59:14,030 --> 00:59:09,990
into detail about what happened to us in

1039
00:59:16,790 --> 00:59:14,040
the book in my new book got it okay

1040
00:59:19,850 --> 00:59:16,800
now getting back to the the book that's

1041
00:59:24,620 --> 00:59:19,860
out now UFOs today you also worked at

1042
00:59:27,650 --> 00:59:24,630
Ohio State and know Jerry we are aiming

1043
00:59:30,140 --> 00:59:27,660
the the famous a WoW signal a scientist

1044
00:59:33,170 --> 00:59:30,150
at least a little bit can you tell us

1045
00:59:35,030 --> 00:59:33,180
about your interactions with him and did

1046
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:35,040
he tell you anything that might give you

1047
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:37,650
our listeners some additional insight

1048
00:59:59,360 --> 00:59:45,570
into that odd incident yeah there was

1049
01:00:04,670 --> 00:59:59,370
recently a exhibition at the Museum the

1050
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:04,680
work at the big-eared telescope and

1051
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:09,930
that's where Jerry Eamon worked and so I

1052
01:00:17,630 --> 01:00:14,130
got to see him very recently and I took

1053
01:00:22,010 --> 01:00:17,640
pictures of him and Bob Dixon who was

1054
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:22,020
ran the telescope it was a director and

1055
01:00:29,810 --> 01:00:24,450
put him on Facebook and they're on

1056
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:29,820
Facebook November the 13th 201 7 on my

1057
01:00:36,220 --> 01:00:31,050
Facebook page

1058
01:00:43,990 --> 01:00:39,320
this was a WoW signal and it may be the

1059
01:00:48,620 --> 01:00:44,000
only communication ever made with et

1060
01:00:52,070 --> 01:00:48,630
it's never been reproduced I worked at

1061
01:00:55,130 --> 01:00:52,080
the telescope and what they were doing

1062
01:00:58,310 --> 01:00:55,140
is setting searching for

1063
01:01:00,770 --> 01:00:58,320
extraterrestrial signals but before that

1064
01:01:03,290 --> 01:01:00,780
they'd also it was a it's a radio

1065
01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:03,300
telescope and they were also doing a Sky

1066
01:01:14,190 --> 01:01:07,920
Survey for to make a map of radio

1067
01:01:22,329 --> 01:01:19,180
and it was during the city they were

1068
01:01:23,859 --> 01:01:22,339
clearly found me where he found the well

1069
01:01:25,870 --> 01:01:23,869
signal and the reason it's called the

1070
01:01:27,759 --> 01:01:25,880
Wow thing it was because it was very

1071
01:01:29,289 --> 01:01:27,769
very strong it was just things were

1072
01:01:33,329 --> 01:01:29,299
going around normal suddenly this huge

1073
01:01:36,490 --> 01:01:33,339
signal came in and it had the right

1074
01:01:42,250 --> 01:01:36,500
format for something that was actually

1075
01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:42,260
out there in space the telescope was it

1076
01:01:51,339 --> 01:01:45,760
had a big screen on one side and it so

1077
01:01:54,279 --> 01:01:51,349
the the signals into another area where

1078
01:01:57,370 --> 01:01:54,289
they worked on electronically and got

1079
01:01:59,680 --> 01:01:57,380
the signals so it's a it's different

1080
01:02:02,620 --> 01:01:59,690
telescope because they had this it

1081
01:02:04,990 --> 01:02:02,630
didn't move like the round telescopes

1082
01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:05,000
they have now it had to it use the

1083
01:02:12,190 --> 01:02:08,569
Earth's movement to survey parts of the

1084
01:02:16,269 --> 01:02:12,200
sky and so it was a different framework

1085
01:02:19,630 --> 01:02:16,279
that they could tell by the trace of the

1086
01:02:24,009 --> 01:02:19,640
of the way the signal came in whether it

1087
01:02:26,140 --> 01:02:24,019
was just something normal or something a

1088
01:02:31,630 --> 01:02:26,150
normal this was definitely I'd normal I

1089
01:02:34,539 --> 01:02:31,640
worked on it looking for an Egypt

1090
01:02:36,910 --> 01:02:34,549
sources and things and I didn't find

1091
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:36,920
anything of what I lost but you can see

1092
01:02:46,569 --> 01:02:38,930
where the Sun was going through and

1093
01:02:51,460 --> 01:02:46,579
things like that was it and so I was

1094
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:51,470
talking to him recently and I was it was

1095
01:02:57,630 --> 01:02:55,130
pretty neat because they had to display

1096
01:03:01,720 --> 01:02:57,640
it was the Ohio Historical Society and

1097
01:03:03,519 --> 01:03:01,730
they gave us they were giving they

1098
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:03,529
hadn't they were made a well single

1099
01:03:10,029 --> 01:03:06,970
documentary if this was a premiere and

1100
01:03:13,359 --> 01:03:10,039
what was interesting to me was that I

1101
01:03:16,839 --> 01:03:13,369
got a message for an astronomer it says

1102
01:03:23,109 --> 01:03:16,849
when my your ho books was on display at

1103
01:03:25,509 --> 01:03:23,119
the it was in their display that they

1104
01:03:30,309 --> 01:03:25,519
put up those priests I thought that

1105
01:03:33,459 --> 01:03:30,319
pretty cool and the signal has never

1106
01:03:35,529 --> 01:03:33,469
been explained there's been some

1107
01:03:38,019 --> 01:03:35,539
explanations that don't make too much

1108
01:03:42,699 --> 01:03:38,029
sense but they don't figure out anything

1109
01:03:44,589 --> 01:03:42,709
or reproduce God okay he's he's

1110
01:03:46,809 --> 01:03:44,599
still pretty pretty proud of himself for

1111
01:03:47,499 --> 01:03:46,819
having founded then I assume after all

1112
01:03:49,870 --> 01:03:47,509
these years

1113
01:03:52,569 --> 01:03:49,880
wait he looks really good I put a

1114
01:03:55,539 --> 01:03:52,579
picture of him on night I should if I

1115
01:03:57,189 --> 01:03:55,549
had time I would have it to you yeah

1116
01:03:59,259 --> 01:03:57,199
yeah I definitely would have included

1117
01:04:01,059 --> 01:03:59,269
that in our slideshow but one thing we

1118
01:04:03,069 --> 01:04:01,069
do have on it you're probably not able

1119
01:04:05,079 --> 01:04:03,079
to see it on your end but we've got a

1120
01:04:10,149 --> 01:04:05,089
lot of the illustrations from your

1121
01:04:12,099 --> 01:04:10,159
current book and the illustration work

1122
01:04:14,319 --> 01:04:12,109
that was done for that book is nothing

1123
01:04:16,209 --> 01:04:14,329
short of fantastic it's not only a

1124
01:04:18,279 --> 01:04:16,219
really good book in terms of covering

1125
01:04:20,499 --> 01:04:18,289
literally everything that's at come up

1126
01:04:22,659 --> 01:04:20,509
in the UFO field over the last 70 years

1127
01:04:25,089 --> 01:04:22,669
but also your personal insights and

1128
01:04:27,549 --> 01:04:25,099
personal experiences as well so it's a

1129
01:04:29,349 --> 01:04:27,559
terrific book I don't buy that many UFO

1130
01:04:30,969 --> 01:04:29,359
books but I bought yours it was well

1131
01:04:39,039 --> 01:04:30,979
worth the price so I strongly recommend

1132
01:04:42,159 --> 01:04:39,049
it thank you very much and one not one

1133
01:04:44,589 --> 01:04:42,169
little personal aside here I exchanged

1134
01:04:46,809 --> 01:04:44,599
emails with Tony Berg Elia this morning

1135
01:04:51,189 --> 01:04:46,819
and mentioned that we're gonna be on the

1136
01:04:53,019 --> 01:04:51,199
show today and he says to say hello well

1137
01:04:56,039 --> 01:04:53,029
say hello to him - I haven't talked to

1138
01:04:59,049 --> 01:04:56,049
him for a while he did the work on the

1139
01:05:00,699 --> 01:04:59,059
memory metal he did he did he's done a

1140
01:05:02,139 --> 01:05:00,709
lot of work in that area I'm still

1141
01:05:04,089 --> 01:05:02,149
trying to get him to come on the show

1142
01:05:06,159 --> 01:05:04,099
but he he doesn't like doing interviews

1143
01:05:09,929 --> 01:05:06,169
too much not even for me I can't figure

1144
01:05:12,069 --> 01:05:09,939
it out one of these days I'll get him

1145
01:05:15,219 --> 01:05:12,079
well he did a lot of really good

1146
01:05:18,699 --> 01:05:15,229
research in the Battelle and memory

1147
01:05:20,379 --> 01:05:18,709
metal and night phenomenal that he did

1148
01:05:22,719 --> 01:05:20,389
when I first started getting seriously

1149
01:05:25,959 --> 01:05:22,729
into this subject myself not quite a

1150
01:05:28,599 --> 01:05:25,969
decade ago now it was his early on and

1151
01:05:31,269 --> 01:05:28,609
we'd be we'd become friends since then

1152
01:05:35,079 --> 01:05:31,279
and he's still doing good work he still

1153
01:05:38,139 --> 01:05:35,089
is okay I just to wrap up here on my end

1154
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:38,149
one really interesting anecdote that

1155
01:05:41,170 --> 01:05:38,930
there you have in you

1156
01:05:44,650 --> 01:05:41,180
book that I'd never heard before was

1157
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:44,660
related to Cordell Hull who was at one

1158
01:05:49,930 --> 01:05:46,490
time the secretary of state of the

1159
01:05:54,190 --> 01:05:49,940
United States during the 1940s also a

1160
01:05:57,520 --> 01:05:54,200
Nobel Prize Peace Prize winner in the

1161
01:06:01,599 --> 01:05:57,530
book you have an anecdote where Cordell

1162
01:06:05,260 --> 01:06:01,609
halwa showed someone actual alien bodies

1163
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:05,270
that were located and they said that

1164
01:06:10,630 --> 01:06:09,170
Hull showed them these alien bodies can

1165
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:10,640
you go into a little bit of detail about

1166
01:06:17,309 --> 01:06:14,450
that story yes he was a very prominent

1167
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:17,319
person he received the Nobel Prize in

1168
01:06:26,799 --> 01:06:21,730
1945 and Roosevelt was asking to run his

1169
01:06:33,940 --> 01:06:26,809
vice-president but he didn't do it so

1170
01:06:39,940 --> 01:06:33,950
this is a very high on the echelons of

1171
01:06:45,990 --> 01:06:39,950
government and Bill Jones who I work

1172
01:07:01,270 --> 01:06:46,000
with and I went to interview people his

1173
01:07:03,549 --> 01:07:01,280
old cousin was a reverend hope and we

1174
01:07:09,930 --> 01:07:03,559
got the information from Pope's two

1175
01:07:13,809 --> 01:07:09,940
daughters we interviewed them in 1999

1176
01:07:16,690 --> 01:07:13,819
bill wrote it up and he rose up with one

1177
01:07:19,059 --> 01:07:16,700
of the daughters and my name is just you

1178
01:07:20,410 --> 01:07:19,069
know but I'm done an altar of it and I

1179
01:07:24,579 --> 01:07:20,420
think it was a very first interview

1180
01:07:29,109 --> 01:07:24,589
anybody done receipt about this case we

1181
01:07:31,870 --> 01:07:29,119
went to see him in the house of one of

1182
01:07:35,140 --> 01:07:31,880
daughters and she had pictures and

1183
01:07:38,980 --> 01:07:35,150
things and pulled out his sister but the

1184
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:38,990
story was is that her father was the

1185
01:07:45,910 --> 01:07:43,010
cousin of home and that one time he was

1186
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:45,920
visiting Washington and Hall took him

1187
01:07:53,339 --> 01:07:49,970
into a chamber which was under the White

1188
01:08:04,589 --> 01:08:02,130
and show them in shooting this this trap

1189
01:08:07,170 --> 01:08:04,599
sort of with a real funny coloring

1190
01:08:13,980 --> 01:08:07,180
everything and bodies that were in

1191
01:08:14,700 --> 01:08:13,990
formaldehyde in jars and this was way

1192
01:08:21,180 --> 01:08:14,710
back it

1193
01:08:23,700 --> 01:08:21,190
the daughters thought it was 1939 which

1194
01:08:32,940 --> 01:08:23,710
was quite a bit before you have the

1195
01:08:36,870 --> 01:08:32,950
modern age of UFOs right and so we

1196
01:08:39,809 --> 01:08:36,880
investigated some such as sci-fi up with

1197
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:39,819
unwritten White House I mean the Capitol

1198
01:08:44,820 --> 01:08:41,770
and I think there are chambers of the

1199
01:08:47,970 --> 01:08:44,830
Capitol but back then that might have

1200
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:47,980
been where they kept the most secured

1201
01:08:55,499 --> 01:08:51,370
things they had might gather the Capitol

1202
01:08:57,840 --> 01:08:55,509
and so there's no way to prove it but

1203
01:09:01,590 --> 01:08:57,850
book the sisters and in words their

1204
01:09:07,050 --> 01:09:01,600
father is telling about it it also was

1205
01:09:10,709 --> 01:09:07,060
interesting because whole new Roosevelt

1206
01:09:15,300 --> 01:09:10,719
and about the time of the formation of

1207
01:09:19,019 --> 01:09:15,310
the United Nations this would kind of

1208
01:09:21,539 --> 01:09:19,029
appeared and some other people I kind of

1209
01:09:26,459 --> 01:09:21,549
wondered if finding out maybe that

1210
01:09:28,590 --> 01:09:26,469
there's UFOs and other black lines I've

1211
01:09:34,499 --> 01:09:28,600
had something to do with forming the

1212
01:09:35,249 --> 01:09:34,509
United Nations got it well uh James are

1213
01:09:37,559 --> 01:09:35,259
you still with us

1214
01:09:40,370 --> 01:09:37,569
yeah I'm clear okay I do you have

1215
01:09:43,229 --> 01:09:40,380
anything for dr. Scott before we wrap up

1216
01:09:44,039 --> 01:09:43,239
no she touched uh on on most of the

1217
01:09:48,510 --> 01:09:44,049
stuff that I was thinking about it

1218
01:09:50,959 --> 01:09:48,520
anyways got it so uh yeah jam-packed

1219
01:09:54,440 --> 01:09:50,969
with information another fantastic show

1220
01:10:06,140 --> 01:09:54,450
dr. Scott do you have anything for us

1221
01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:08,570
scientific study of lifelong UFO

1222
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:12,490
experiences and the basic idea is to

1223
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:15,730
refute the idea that science doesn't

1224
01:10:21,450 --> 01:10:19,090
have anything to do with UFOs got it

1225
01:10:25,170 --> 01:10:21,460
okay well thanks for joining us dr.

1226
01:10:27,540 --> 01:10:25,180
Scott again another show jam-packed

1227
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:27,550
filled with fascinating information that

1228
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:30,370
is not commonly known about the UFO

1229
01:10:36,990 --> 01:10:33,730
subject thanks again and you have a

1230
01:10:39,810 --> 01:10:37,000
great day well you do thank you very

1231
01:10:41,190 --> 01:10:39,820
much for having me no problem and when

1232
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:41,200
your new book comes out we'll be happy

1233
01:10:47,730 --> 01:10:45,610
to have you on again great okay thank

1234
01:10:50,430 --> 01:10:47,740
you and don't forget about the book

1235
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:50,440
that's available now that is hang on a

1236
01:10:56,820 --> 01:10:52,810
sec let me get back to the screen shot

1237
01:10:59,450 --> 01:10:56,830
of that UFOs today 70 years of lies

1238
01:11:03,320 --> 01:10:59,460
misinformation and government cover-up

1239
01:11:07,260 --> 01:11:03,330
available at Amazon very easy to find

1240
01:11:09,620 --> 01:11:07,270
and I in this like go through the

1241
01:11:14,370 --> 01:11:09,630
cover-up from the very beginnings of

1242
01:11:17,460 --> 01:11:14,380
ufology up to the day so and the

1243
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:17,470
pictures are also great yeah and the

1244
01:11:21,180 --> 01:11:19,210
illustrations are Fanta was really

1245
01:11:23,220 --> 01:11:21,190
surprised it's a lot more book than I

1246
01:11:24,420 --> 01:11:23,230
was expecting when I got it I am was

1247
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:24,430
kind of thinking I was going to be able

1248
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:26,050
to buzz through it pretty quick but

1249
01:11:31,770 --> 01:11:27,610
that's not been the case I've had it I

1250
01:11:32,970 --> 01:11:31,780
think for about a month now and I've

1251
01:11:35,010 --> 01:11:32,980
gotten through most of it I still

1252
01:11:37,230 --> 01:11:35,020
haven't gotten through all of it but at

1253
01:11:38,670 --> 01:11:37,240
least I was able to find some new and

1254
01:11:42,300 --> 01:11:38,680
exciting stuff that I could ask you

1255
01:11:43,740 --> 01:11:42,310
about and I would think that a lot of

1256
01:11:45,150 --> 01:11:43,750
it's going to be new information for a

1257
01:11:47,550 --> 01:11:45,160
lot of people who are listening in

1258
01:11:49,950 --> 01:11:47,560
especially the Rutledge study which is

1259
01:11:53,940 --> 01:11:49,960
really fascinating stuff so I thanks

1260
01:11:59,130 --> 01:11:53,950
again dr. okay thank you thank you have

1261
01:12:03,030 --> 01:11:59,140
a great day you do too bye bye now take

1262
01:12:06,630 --> 01:12:03,040
care bye and James another successful

1263
01:12:08,850 --> 01:12:06,640
show in the book yeah I learned

1264
01:12:10,230 --> 01:12:08,860
definitely a lot of stuff and it's very

1265
01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:10,240
interesting how they had the connection

1266
01:12:14,850 --> 01:12:13,090
with the Rutledge study yeah I was

1267
01:12:16,650 --> 01:12:14,860
really surprised it's funny because I

1268
01:12:18,580 --> 01:12:16,660
was going to ask dr. Scott about that

1269
01:12:21,910 --> 01:12:18,590
and then

1270
01:12:24,940 --> 01:12:21,920
last night I see this this little

1271
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:24,950
article from the the Bigelow a project

1272
01:12:28,870 --> 01:12:27,050
manager talking about essentially the

1273
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:28,880
same kinds of things that the Rutledge

1274
01:12:35,140 --> 01:12:32,090
found almost 50 years ago now it's it's

1275
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:35,150
it's like it's fascinating and the

1276
01:12:38,830 --> 01:12:37,130
connections are all over the place yet

1277
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:38,840
that to a certain extent there's really

1278
01:12:44,740 --> 01:12:41,330
nothing new Under the Sun in terms of

1279
01:12:47,260 --> 01:12:44,750
UFOs this is a consistent well-known

1280
01:12:49,450 --> 01:12:47,270
phenomenon yeah and that's something I

1281
01:12:52,420 --> 01:12:49,460
think that um George a nap talks a lot

1282
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:52,430
about and Jeremy Korbel and especially

1283
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:54,290
referring to the skinwalker ranch which

1284
01:12:59,560 --> 01:12:56,570
is probably where the bass studies were

1285
01:13:03,700 --> 01:12:59,570
taking place yep yep yep well next week

1286
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:03,710
we've got coming up Stanton Friedman who

1287
01:13:10,270 --> 01:13:07,370
is probably if there was a Mount

1288
01:13:11,820 --> 01:13:10,280
Rushmore for UFO researchers his face

1289
01:13:14,470 --> 01:13:11,830
would probably be right up there with

1290
01:13:15,820 --> 01:13:14,480
with three others I don't know who the

1291
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:15,830
three others would be I'd have to think

1292
01:13:20,230 --> 01:13:18,050
about it but he definitely be in there

1293
01:13:23,710 --> 01:13:20,240
yeah hi knit the big in there Jacques

1294
01:13:25,150 --> 01:13:23,720
Palais maybe that's the way and somebody

1295
01:13:27,010 --> 01:13:25,160
else we'd have to think about maybe

1296
01:13:29,050 --> 01:13:27,020
maybe Kehoe maybe Kehoe would be the

1297
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:29,060
fourth Oh true I have to think about

1298
01:13:33,250 --> 01:13:31,250
that but yeah Stanton Friedman is gonna

1299
01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:33,260
be with us and we're gonna have is a

1300
01:13:38,140 --> 01:13:36,290
much fun if not more next week than we

1301
01:13:40,540 --> 01:13:38,150
did this week so you got anything else

1302
01:13:42,850 --> 01:13:40,550
for everybody James no it's just gonna

1303
01:13:44,440 --> 01:13:42,860
be our special birthday episode that's

1304
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:44,450
right that's right their birthday is

1305
01:13:50,410 --> 01:13:47,570
next Saturday is it yeah may 12th

1306
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:50,420
Saturday okay and mine will be the the

1307
01:13:54,390 --> 01:13:51,530
date that we have

1308
01:13:56,650 --> 01:13:54,400
Stanton Friedman on next May 13th so

1309
01:13:59,110 --> 01:13:56,660
everybody have a great rest of your day